I got a 'Remove the pic of my plane or I'll sue' e-mail.....

twotterdriver

Got an e-mail yesterday (see below) which kind of makes me laugh....Just not sure how to respond. Any suggestions?

I know it is not just an 'American' reaction to say 'I'll Sue You!' at the first indication of something one doesn't like or agree with...however....

A 'Please remove the picture for personal reasons' would have gone over a lot better, and I would be more inclined to comply, rather than spend the last hour on google looking up U.S. Law relating to photography.....

'verbal or written authorization is required, neither was sought or granted and your photo for sale or distribution is not authorized' - not needed if the picture was taken in public...

'face legal action for damages' - for a picture? The picture is not for sale (unlike another websie where you can buy copies), there is no monetary gain on my part, what kind of damages does he expect? Someone found out he was in Santa Monica? May have caught onto something here.....

'The information is neither been approved or reviewed by the owners' - this one confuses me because the e-mail was from the FAA registered owner......

'Remove all information of this aircraft or face legal action' - Anyone can get all the information on this aircraft from the governements FAA website. Plus I am not in the U.S., so good luck on that one....

For those interested, the picture was taken from a public park, beside the Santa Monica airport, so there were no 'tresspassing' issues.

Aircraft photo on http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/266594.html

This Aircraft is featured on a web site and the photo was taken without the owners authorization. you are to remove the photo at once or face legal action for damages. Prior to photo of any personal property or persons verbal or written authorization is required, neither was sought or granted and your photo for sale or distribution is not authorized. Remove all information of this aircraft or face legal action. The information is neither been approved or reviewed by the owners.

BradCampbell

I wouldn't even respond to him. It's not happened to me before, but if it did, I'd just remove the photo and be done with it. There is no way you can be sued but I think it's better for our hobby and besides, who wants to look at his stupid airplane anyway! :

He must be paranoid or embarrassed about something. Most people are very happy to see somebody has taken a nice photo of their aircraft. It's funny though: on the FAA website you can see his name and address. You can even go to Google Earth and see his house. Oh, I'm sorry, his apartment...

Ztex

I have been down this road before.

http://www.airport-data.com/forums/post-1121.html#1121

This is stuff is beyond ridiculous. There are no violations of privacy rights here. The only time anyone has any of these kinds of rights is when they are personally identifiable (face) or if the object is inside a private building not visible to the outside by normal means..IE a photo of me inside my own house through a window is considered off limits (most of the time)

If someone wants to drive down the road and photograph my house from the public street there is nothing that I can do about it....see Google Maps Street View...

This airplane was in public view, it is required to have a registration number painted on the side. That number and the information tied to it is a matter of public record. It would be no different if you took the photo from your back yard while he was flying over your house.

First inclination is to tell him to stuff it...

Second is to try and reason with him and try and confuse him with the facts...

Thirdly...just remove the pic to keep the peace...but let him know there is no valid legal reason for it...you just removed the photo to be a nice guy.

grrrr

Apartment...hehe...at a country club no less.... :

Bluedharma

http://www.airport-data.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2000#2000

Thirdly...just remove the pic to keep the peace...but let him know there is no valid legal reason for it...you just removed the photo to be a nice guy.

Ditto... same as Ztex

THoff

What a twit. The photo was taken in a public place, there is no expectation of privacy. And exactly what kind of damages did he incur?

GlennE.Chatfield

I'm sort of the other way - I'd say leave the photo and up his nose with a rubber hose if he doesn't like it. He is probably an abusive type who always gets his way - a bully. And I don't let bullies get their way - sometimes they have to see that not everyone backs down. I'd say it's my photo and I'd doing what I want with it!

twotterdriver

'You can even go to Google Earth and see his house. Oh, I'm sorry, his apartment...' LOL

My main concern is to make sure airport-data doesn't get drawn into any 'legasl issues'. I really enjoy the site, don't want anyone to affect it negatively.

The main issue, for me, is the 'rudeness' of the threat. 'I'll sue you if you don't remove my picture'. A simple Please and Thank You would have been sufficent for me to remove it. Now, out of stubborness, I don't really feel like helping him out at all.

Its a plain-jane Cessna 182, one of 27,000 built over the years, so I am not sure what his concern is. If someone didn't want people to know where or when he was in Santa Monica, I guess having photo evidence available on the net is a bad thing!

Thanks for all the replys. I think I will leave it up for a while, just to see how it goes.

Ken Wang

As the email mentioned to take out the aircraft information, I will put my two cents.

Over the time I have received a few requests to remove aircraft information. Some as nicely and even give a reason, only a few are rude and threatened legal action. For all of them I reply an email, pointed out politely that his/her aircraft information along with name and address is listed under FAA and publicly available to all over the world. This usually put an end to the talk, only very few still insist, and only one of them still be rude. So, I hard code the program to not to show these registry, as for the rude one, I choose to redirect all request for his aircraft to FAA's page (which, as many of you know, show more info than we do). Wondering if he will start a lawsuit against FAA.

So, if the guy mentioned to this thread still threaten legal action, I guess it's best to do the same redirecting thing. I have rights to redirect my own incoming traffic right?

Ken

FloridaMetal

Its probably not even his plane, just some kid messing with you.

I would email him back and show proof that it is his plane.

LEAVE THE PICTURE UP, SCREW HIM

He might have a case if you could see this person or someone else that he knows in the picture - ie if he was taxiing byand he could be could be seen in the aircraft, he could claim invasion of privacy. Being that he is not in the aircraft - no case

BruceVinal

Me, I'd hit that airport every day and get as many pics of his plane as I could. Wait till he has a bad landing and replace the photo in question with that :

SirPaulLLeeKBE

Legally, this "complainant" has no grounds whatsoever. There is no court in europe or the us who would hear, never mind uphold, this complaint. You are absolutely within your rights to leave the photo where it is. However, at least one of the contributors to this string has expressed concern about the possibility of involving the site in a legal wrangle. My advice , therefor, would be to email the complainant, requesting his/her grounds for the objection and also proof of their identity and title to the aircraft in question. I would then go on to state that, if I were satisfied that the complainant had a valid reason for wanting the photo removed, I would be prepared to consider such a course of action. Then I would embarrass the individual by informing him/her that a simple "please" and "thank you" have the astounding effect of lubricating the execution of such decisions.

Of course it's entirely up to you what you do because you are 100% within the law, but the forgoing would be my advised course of action. It's not as if it were a photo of some very rare aircraft is it. Anyway I will be watching this space, so please keep us all posted about any developements.

Cheers

Paul

Helicopterfriend

I just got my first request and I questioned the sender on their reasoning. The person replied and after hearing the reason, I removed the picture and was able to help with other requests for the person. They were extremely polite and asked if I would remove it, no threats or promises.

DougRobertson

I am the photographer of the aircraft several years ago whose owner threatened to sue the airport-data.com site manager, that Ken subsequently redirected the aircraft's N number hit on A-D straight to the FAA N number registration home page, showing full ownership details. Poetic justice!

A visiting pilot on a First Sunday Open House and Fly-In, he accosted me on the flight line, asking if I was Doug Robertson. As he didn't look like he was about to punch out an old man, I confirmed his request, rather than answering "Not necessarily!" Interestingly enough, he had absolutely no dispute with me the photographer, but wanted to sue the site! He stated he had retained "my lawyer" who told him he "had a good case". Pretty good description of lawyer ethics.

He has subsequently flown in many times and I have had no further conversations with him, but warn other photographers about his aircraft, an ordinary straight tail four seat popular model.

artracer

He has nothing. The plane is parked in the open. There are no signs stating photography not allowed, it is in the public domain, there are no corporate logo's on it, and it's a bloody Cessa..... I'd say the owner has a large chip and a load of self importance issues. Either that or the feds are looking for him, because his cargo has a funny smell when ignited... Just a guess : ) But basically, ignore him. If he wants to waste money on a lawyer, let him. Maybe his wife is not being very "hospitable" at the moment. You know how that can make you cranky ! :

AirportBumScott

I'm probably late on the response and I did not read all the post, but it sounds too like he wants "all info removed" as though you have something to do with the FAA related information regarding his aircraft. I think he fails to understand that the information on his aircraft is open record. Unless he request otherwise, his pilots license info is also public domain.

I ran into something similar to this where a picture was being used for financial gain, and they got it off of one of those "pay for picture" websites, but it was clearly not paid for. I asked for my picture credentials to be displayed more prominently, and they became belligerent. It was at that point that I contacted a lawyer and was given legal advice. I again repeated that I am not asking for compensation, but the credentials to be displayed and be done with it, or not to use the picture at all. To this they came at me with I was trespassing and lacked permission to take a picture of their plane (it was at a fly-in that was open to the public) They believed the guise that "it was there plane, coincidentally the airport owned the plane, he was the airport owner, and therefore, it's their image." I then threatened legal action (I actually didn't have a strong case, don't be fooled with the copyright laws and the copyrights per website, one is free and not binding, the other one requires a payment of $35 per picture to actually copyright, not to mention any red tape and wait time. A lot of people think that their image is safe under a webpage's terms of use; sadly it is NOT, however, it's rarely a huge issue.) and contacted the webmaster to get it removed and to find out the process of how they obtain their photos. The webmaster stated that they used the correct channels for obtaining the picture, which it was at that point that I said "oh really.." and provided them with the link, my data, and EXIF data, and I requested their insurance information for the Webmaster and the people using my image. Needless to say, that "legal talk" of asking them for their insurance information was enough to finally make things happen and the picture was off the webpage within seconds.

People think incorrectly that pictures of aircraft are private matters. I have been stopped at airports and told I have a "weird" hobby by cops and TSA. Others wrongly assume that taking pictures of airplanes violates some sort of TSA post 9/11 act. The general public is in a sense doing their part to be vigilante, but at the same time, most are incredibly naive and ignorant to what the laws actually state.

Not to give attention to the "other" website (to which I have not had a picture accepted since 2004 and consequentially have boycott) here is the picture that I speak of.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=152888&nseq=0

Ztex

I have been stopped at airports and told I have a "weird" hobby by cops and TSA

I have been told that as well.... :

Most people think everyone elses hobby is weird...ever been to a Renaissance festival? or a cat show? I collect beer bottle caps...but that has a nice bonus feature :

NBC did their best to both make fun of and understand our hobby a while back...

Al Roker is a turd....

http://www.nbc.com/news-sports/today-show/today-tries-out-plane-spotting/

Bluedharma

beer bottle caps... hmmm...

That sounds like a hobby for me to start right now.

Regards,

davidhcrocker

I'll throw my two cents worth into what has been a very popular subject. First, unless you post your personal information on airport-data.com (i.e. your mailing/residence address), how are they going to know where to send the legal notice that you've been sued? Second, everyone always says they'll sue. It's all a bunch of hooey. Make them sue you. Make them spend their hard earned money on lawyer's fees. Then, if they somehow manage to find where you live and actually have a process server personally hand you papers, then simply delete the photo(s) and make the whole process a moot point. The jackass causing all the problems will be out several hundred dollars in lawyer's fees while you're out nothing. Talk about a pyhrric victory!

DanielL.Berek

There are no grounds for a lawsuit whatsoever. One can even take candid pictures of people in public places. I have even had a police officer threaten me, but there was not a thing he could do, as I was not trespassing or violating anyone's privacy, or even doing anything that could be in any way construed as a security risk, such as taking a picture of the entrance to a military installation. These loudmouthed bullies can scream all they want, but there is nothing they can do.

Besides how effective can an attorney be if he or she corresponds via e-mail, rather than a certified letter. Gimme a break! This guy's threat isn't worth the pixels it was written on.

DeanHeald

Leave your photo up on the site if you want to. That person has no right to make you remove it. What can be seen by the human eye from a public location is legal to photograph.