When People Don't Understand What You're Doing

davidhcrocker

I had an interesting experience at last Sunday's monthly Airport Day at Fullerton Airport.

An "older" gentleman walked up to me while I was on the tarmac photographing planes that I've never seen before at Fullerton, and he said to me that a bunch of the pilots were speculating about what I was up to, since I only seemed to be photographing the "tails" of each aircraft.

Well, I reassured this gentleman that I photographed these aircraft from every angle -- front, center, and tail -- and that I posted these photos to Airport-Data. com. I asked the gentleman if he had ever heard of this Website and he replied that he hadn't. Now, this is my first incredulous question. How can you be an F-ing pilot and not know about A-D.com?

Now I will credit this older gentleman. He told me that he said to the other pilots that they should simply walk up to me and ask me what I was up to. At least he had the "cahones" to do so.

Frankly, I don't give a crap about what anyone thinks about my activities, just as long as I'm doing nothing illegal. And as long as the powers that be at Fullerton Airport throw open the gates every second Sunday of the month, then I feel free to photograph whatever the "F" I feel like photographing. Just as long as I don't stray onto a taxiway or runway 6/24.

This brings up a related topic. I have a number of people ask me if I'm a pilot. When I tell them no, they're always puzzled as to why I'd be hanging out at an airport photographing airplanes. When I tell them that I'm no different than the NASCAR fan who has never sat behind the wheel of a racecar that can go 200 mph, or the train fanatic who has never piloted a Burlington Northern and Santa Fe locomotive, these folks give me a puzzled look. So my second incredulous question is, why can't pilots and other airport related people understand that there are other people who dig what they do, but who really have no desire to spend $10,000 to actually learn to do what they do.

I, for one, have no desire to ever fly in a single engine prop job. The "smallest" aircraft I've ever flown in is a BAe 146. Yet, I'm still interested in photographing these single and twin engine GA aircraft. Yet, a lot of these airport folks just don't seem to understand my presence at the airport four or five times a month.

Ken Wang

I asked the gentleman if he had ever heard of this Website and he replied that he hadn't. Now, this is my first incredulous question. How can you be an F-ing pilot and not know about A-D.com?

That means we, especially myself, still has a lot of work to do.

Ken

Bluedharma

How can you be an F-ing pilot and not know about A-D.com?

Most pilots that I have talked to have only heard about A-D.com after they have googled the N#.

That is not that surprising considering the large group of people who fly. Some are weekend flyers, others fly for a living.

When I tell them no, they're always puzzled as to why I'd be hanging out at an airport photographing airplanes.

This is a great opportunity for you to promote A-D.com and your own photos.

I have found that after talking to a few of these pilots that question what I do, most of them do not have pictures of their aircraft in flight.

By providing the pilots photos at no cost, they often give me a “heads up” when certain events will happen or allow me to “cross the yellow tape” at air shows.

The more people you know, the better off you are is really the case when it comes to airport photography.

I find most of my best opportunities are arrived at after I start up a chat with someone who does not know what I am doing.

davidhcrocker

How can you be an F-ing pilot and not know about A-D.com?

Most pilots that I have talked to have only heard about A-D.com after they have googled the N#.

That is not that surprising considering the large group of people who fly. Some are weekend flyers, others fly for a living.

When I tell them no, they're always puzzled as to why I'd be hanging out at an airport photographing airplanes.

This is a great opportunity for you to promote A-D.com and your own photos.

I have found that after talking to a few of these pilots that question what I do, most of them do not have pictures of their aircraft in flight.

By providing the pilots photos at no cost, they often give me a “heads up” when certain events will happen or allow me to “cross the yellow tape” at air shows.

The more people you know, the better off you are is really the case when it comes to airport photography.

I find most of my best opportunities are arrived at after I start up a chat with someone who does not know what I am doing.

Well, as you read in my earlier post, the pilots at Fullerton aren't exactly forthcoming in asking me about my activities, except for the old guy who came up to me a couple of Sundays ago. And, as it turned out, he doesn't even fly anymore because he thinks he's too old. Bottomline, the guys who display their planes the second Sunday of each month have yet to say "boo" to me. Most of the people who ask me if I'm a pilot ask this question outside the gates, so I guess they aren't even pilots in their own right. They see my Radio Shack scanner with the rubber duck antenna and just naturally assume that I must be a pilot.

I will say that I haven't exactly been forthcoming in my own right with the pilots who display at Fullerton. Mainly because I photographed their planes 18 months ago, so what do I care about them anymore? I now visit Fullerton to shoot aircraft I've never seen before. Plus, if I really want to know about their planes, I can just visit A-D or the FAA Web sites. Not that I'm trying to be unsocial, but I kinda feel like it's up to the pilots to break the ice, since I'm at the airport on a specific mission, to photograph "new" aircraft to add to the database.

Plus, this still doesn't answer my question as to why these folks can't understand that I'm no different than the NASCAR fan who loves racecars or the locomotive train fanatic. I'm not a pilot, but I still "dig" airplanes. How hard is that to understand?

Bluedharma

Plus, this still doesn't answer my question as to why these folks can't understand that I'm no different than the NASCAR fan who loves racecars or the locomotive train fanatic. I'm not a pilot, but I still "dig" airplanes. How hard is that to understand?

I wish I could help with that one. Not sure. I don't think it is hard to understand... But I have the same hobby.

Some people like to go fishing not to fish but to relax.

Some like to golf. Some people like to take pictures of aircraft. If others do not understand then we can choose to teach them, or to move on.

Someone told me once... Those that matter do not mind, and those who mind do not matter....

So don't worry what these guys understand about the hobby.

DougRobertson

David,

Please come to Santa Paula airport SZP on a First Sunday Aviation Museum of Santa Paula Open House and Fly-In for photography and more. Hours are 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. but I get there early about 0830 for parking. There are always early fly-in arrivals for good on-final shots, plus local training flights. It is an open, different kind of airport with interested pilots and open hangars. The visitor pilots are friendly also and freely roam the airport; just don't cross the runway. 4-22 can be walked around either overrun end, with vigilance. The fly-in aircraft are as interesting as the rare, unusual or one-of-a-kind based aircraft.

The self-serve fuel dock is a good place to converse, especially if there is an unusual engine conversion, for example. Take a look at N36PC photos for what a little conversation resulted in. I received a nice email later from the helpful, knowledgeable out of state pilot, who had one of only 40 STC'd Turbo Lycoming 350 Hp conversions that Machen made for Bonanzas. A Lycoming-powered A36 Bonanza with modified cowls attracted a lot of lookers and questions.

Two more emails were received yesterday from grateful pilots praising my photos of their aircraft. One noted he saw me on final photographing his aircraft. See N91866 on final. Another had prior mild aerobatic time in N240R, Steve Fossett's last ride, my photos of which were the only ones on the web. That was quite an interesting series of emails! I always thank praising emailers and that frequently results in more email. I, too, do not charge for use of my photos, but ask as to what use they may be put, if not evident from the request. I have been a pilot since the mid-'60s and that helps break the ice, too. Many pilots have never seen a photo of their aircraft in flight. A "hobby" card with your email address and the A-D site address is most useful to provide. I tailored my own aviation card at 123Print.

davidhcrocker

Someone told me once... Those that matter do not mind, and those who mind do not matter....

Sage words.

Bluedharma

David,

Many pilots have never seen a photo of their aircraft in flight.

That is very true. It is amazing to me at how many pilots have never seen a photo of them in flight.

Most will jump at an offer for a free photo. The information received back about future events/fly-ins can be quite valuable!

N72922

Santa Paula is a great place to photograph everything. You never know what might pop in for breakfast.

I wouldn't worry about the older guy at FUL. Im guessing he is the same one that runs the display day. I had a few words with him after he refused to sign my participation form because my aircraft was only displayed for 2 hours and not the whole day. I ended up getting it signed but the guy must've had a piece of shrapnel he was sitting on.

-Nick

davidhcrocker

David,

Many pilots have never seen a photo of their aircraft in flight.

That is very true. It is amazing to me at how many pilots have never seen a photo of them in flight.

Most will jump at an offer for a free photo. The information received back about future events/fly-ins can be quite valuable

Well, here's an interesting thing. Whenever I've had a pilot e-mail me about a photo, they always ask me if I have a higher resolution version. Remember, I'm using a rinky-dink 6 megapixel Canon Powershot 540. I kinda get offended at first, but simply tell them no, what they see on A-D is the highest resolution available. None of these folks have asked me to send them a photo.

Then, there's the airport shuttle service based in Camarillo, CA, which last Summer asked me about purchasing the rights to a photo I shot of the Van Nuys tower. Once I found out they were a profit making organization, I told them I would give them exclusive rights to my photo, which would include my deleting the photo from A-D as well as deleting all versions that I owned from my computer. All this for a measly $250. The cheap bastards never responded.

So, you might imagine my reluctance to respond to requests for my photos. Frankly, I don't need to be cushy-cushy with pilots to enjoy my hobby. All I need is a scanner that can receive 118-136 MHz and a camera. Although I'm hoping I can get a better camera in the future. I was hoping those cheap bastards in Camarillo would pay for a new camera.

Bluedharma

David,

Your post topic is: 'When People Don't Understand What You're Doing'

It is very difficult to tell what "tone" people are using when they are posting to a forum.

But the perceived "tone" (by me) in this thread is that you don't care about what the pilots think.

And that is OK. Everyone has a right to enjoy a hobby the way they wish.

If I am off base here... then I apologize.

Frankly, I don't give a crap about what anyone thinks about my activities, just as long as I'm doing nothing illegal.

I will say that I haven't exactly been forthcoming in my own right with the pilots who display at Fullerton. Mainly because I photographed their planes 18 months ago, so what do I care about them anymore?

Frankly, I don't need to be cushy-cushy with pilots to enjoy my hobby.

What I am confused about is why you posted this question on A-D:

'When People Don't Understand What You're Doing'

You appear fustrated that they do not understand your road to the "good life".

But your answer appears to be there already.

Your enjoyment of the hobby does not require them to understand.

Now if you posted to get opinions of other A-D members then:

I happen to disagree with you. I think that you may be missing an opportunity to get more information or future photo opportunities.

Not all pilots are like the ones you encountered. In fact I have found the opposite to be true.

Almost every pilot I have met has gone out of his/her way to offer more information about aviation and

future aviation events. We have some very rare stuff here in Denver, and I often get a 'heads up' from people who hanger next to these aircraft.

That was how I found out about these.

Adams aircraft

Starship

I have had a very positive experience with pilots and airport security.

I look forward to making new contacts and getting photos of new aircraft.

My opinion doesn't make you wrong, I just have a different point of view on this aviation hobby.

Again if I am off base here... then I apologize.

Best Regards.

davidhcrocker

David,

Your post topic is: 'When People Don't Understand What You're Doing'

It is very difficult to tell what "tone" people are using when they are posting to a forum.

But the perceived "tone" (by me) in this thread is that you don't care about what the pilots think.

And that is OK. Everyone has a right to enjoy a hobby the way they wish.

If I am off base here... then I apologize.

Frankly, I don't give a crap about what anyone thinks about my activities, just as long as I'm doing nothing illegal.

I will say that I haven't exactly been forthcoming in my own right with the pilots who display at Fullerton. Mainly because I photographed their planes 18 months ago, so what do I care about them anymore?

Frankly, I don't need to be cushy-cushy with pilots to enjoy my hobby.

What I am confused about is why you posted this question on A-D:

'When People Don't Understand What You're Doing'

You appear fustrated that they do not understand your road to the "good life".

But your answer appears to be there already.

Your enjoyment of the hobby does not require them to understand.

Now if you posted to get opinions of other A-D members then:

I happen to disagree with you. I think that you may be missing an opportunity to get more information or future photo opportunities.

Not all pilots are like the ones you encountered. In fact I have found the opposite to be true.

Almost every pilot I have met has gone out of his/her way to offer more information about aviation and

future aviation events. We have some very rare stuff here in Denver, and I often get a 'heads up' from people who hanger next to these aircraft.

That was how I found out about these.

Adams aircraft

Starship

I have had a very positive experience with pilots and airport security.

I look forward to making new contacts and getting photos of new aircraft.

My opinion doesn't make you wrong, I just have a different point of view on this aviation hobby.

Again if I am off base here... then I apologize.

Best Regards.

You're correct. I just wish the cheap shuttle service in Camarillo had given me $250 so I could buy a better camera.

SteveLTNSpot

Have to say Luton is pretty good these days. Local Met very cooperative with Spotters and never any issues on the stepladder!

davidhcrocker

You know, having given it further thought, I think what prompted me to make the original post was the comment by the old, retired pilot that the other pilots thought I was simply photographing the "tails" of their aircraft, like I had some sort of fetish about the back ends of aircraft. Yet, if these pilots had been paying attention for the past 18 months they would have noticed that I photographed aircraft from every angle and also photographed aircraft while taxiing and in the air. I guess I expected that people who have an FAA license would be smarter than the general population, but I guess that some pilots are just as dumb as the general population, porportionately. Thank God I don't need them to enjoy my hobby.

red750

I have only been approached twice while taking photos at the airport, both on the same day and both positive. These experiences are detailed in the "harrassment" thread on the Airports forum - last post.

I also take photos of tails - after I photograph the whole aircraft. Its the easiest way to record the aicraft tail number to upload - usually I forget to take a pen or paper to jot them down. That way I can look up the details of the aircraft on the internet, particularly if there is no profile on A-D.

Regards,

Peter.

DougRobertson

David,

There may be another reason for the gentleman's concern at KFUL not covered here. Not all California-based pilot's care to have their aircraft registered such that a County's personal property tax will be assessed each August on their aircraft. That and liability issues cause many pilots to register their aircraft as corporate-owned with an out-of state address such as frequently a Delaware incorporation. I was accosted years ago on the SZP transient line by a gentleman who did not know me asking whether I was from the Ventura County Assessor's office. Ventura County has a website of registered aircraft in the county with owner's names and addresses.

Some pilot's do not want their aircraft photographed for that reason, and I abide by their wishes. After all, many are friends. I have removed a lot of my photos from the web for that very reason, and sometimes caution other nearby photographers about an owner's wishes.

One pilot felt 'violated' seeing his aircraft photos on the A-D site. He smiled at me and had no problem with my photographing his aircraft until some month's later he saw the photos on this site probably by Googling his N number. Another owner of an aerobatic biplane inexplicably felt my photos put his family "in danger". Some owners do not want the inside of their hangars shown through open doors. The list goes on.....

davidhcrocker

Good Lord, Doug, I think you're onto something. The old pilot I mentioned, who doesn't fly anymore, was telling me that the owners of antique aircraft had to fly their planes to various airport displays four to six times a year in order to avoid some type of antique airplane tax. I really didn't understand what the gentleman was talking about, but I'd love it if there was an antique aircraft owner out there who could explain it to me and everyone else.

It should be interesting this coming Sunday, when I go to the monthly Fullerton display, to see if I get any comments from the pilots.

By the way, since I have no pilot friends, and I'm photographing at a city-owned airport, I have no qualms about posting any photograph I take at Fullerton. And I've yet to have anyone e-mail me with a demand that I delete a photo. Although last week I'd had some guy e-mail me saying that I misidentified the make and model of his aircraft. I simply replied that it wasn't me, but A-D who was responsible for aircraft identification, and suggested that if he had any beef, that he take it up with the folks who run A-D.

DougRobertson

David,

In California, a pilot owner of any aircraft 25 years or older (not just "antiques") can escape being taxed for annual personal property tax on such aircraft if he or she publicly displays it 12 times per year in an advertised or publicly-known public event. I believe paid airshow admissions where such aircraft including fly-in aircraft may be on display also qualify as "public" events.

The aircraft owner is required to document the showings and have the form witnessed. I know open hangar owners at SZP who assure that they fill out the form for every First Sunday to qualify for the personal tax exemption, as Nick referred to. Twenty-fives years or older covers a lot of aircraft (2011 minus 25 equals 1986) and the exemption can save a lot of money annually, making it attractive to exhibit such an aircraft.

Some aircraft owners are unaware of this possible tax exemption and get paranoid and upset about photographers around their aircraft or open hangars. I usually ask permission to photograph in hangars for other reasons, as some hangars contain valuable other "stuff" such as restored old cars, etc.

BTW, I seem to recall referring to this personal property tax exemption in an older, earlier Forum entry here.

Ztex

What a load of governmental BS. I thank God that Texas has not succumbed to such silliness...yet... : :

The up side is that you get to see many airplanes that might otherwise stay in the hanger.

We have a few municipal entities that used to tax personal property but they found out that folks would do just about anything to get around the tax so they have dropped that approach.

Some municipalities will tax personal property if it is used to make money...

Bluedharma

Saw this article this morning.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/06/01/mta-officers-detain-man-for-taking-pictures/