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red750

What happens when you need to create an aircraft profile but you are unable to get compulsory information such as construction or serial number?

I don't know what rules apply in other countries, but in Australia, registration of general aviation aircraft and larger is controlled by CASA, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, but recreational aircraft (Light Sport Aircraft) registration is controlled by RAAus (Recreational Aviation Australia).

CASA registration details ( the VH- numbers) are published and accessible on a number of websites, and provide a large amount of detail.

RAAus registration details (all numeric - 10-0001, 19-0001 ,24-0001, etc) are only listed with make, model and date first registered, and a lot of operators think this is too much information. This class covers all types of aircraft from motorised hang-gliders, trikes, to factory builts such as Tecnam, Jabiru, Skyfox, etc and homebuilt and kit aircraft.

For aircraft such as these, how do you create the profile?

Regards,

Peter.

GlennE.Chatfield

I've posted lots of profiles without c/n or s/n because I can't find them. Just put in "unknown" in that box. Many of mine have been found later (sometimes by as much as 4 years!) and corrected at that time.

ChrisHall

Hi Glenn and Peter

by adding "unknown" in the C/N field, it will link that airframe to any others marked as "unknown".

For example, if you label several Jabiru's as unknown, they will all be linked together and will then have to be delinked by the admin team.

The only way around this problem at the moment may be to add unknown AND the tail number in the C/N field thereby not creating any spurious links

thanks

Chris

GlennE.Chatfield

I've seen that happen with same types, but not with different types.

red750

Thanks Chris.

Peter.

FloridaMetal

the C/N will be linked together as n/a or unknown even if the Serial number or registration number is different?

MalcolmClarke

I,m not too sure of your question Daniel, as the cn and serial number (sn) are to me one and the same thing.

The three normally invariable bits of data for an airframe are the manufacturer, the model and the cn. I say normally as sometimes there is a change of model when military airframes are allocated civil registrations. As Glenn found recently, this can be equally frustrating by making it difficult/impossible to achieve linkage when you want to!

Linkage occurs when all three of these items are the same.

The registration can vary, and indeed this is the object of linkage in that this enables the history of an airframe to be traced through its various registrations.

Inappropriate linkage normally results when profiles are raised by entering a manufacturer and model which already exists in the database, and not knowing the cn, "unknown" or similar notations are applied which already exist. This has the effect of joining two different airframes together, ie. linked.

Chris's suggestion is a good solution. Enter "not found" or "unknown" together with the registration in the cn field, thus creating a "unique cn" and linkage will not result.

Malcolm.

red750

Check out this profile, Daniel. The C/N (ie. serial no.) is unavailable.

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/24-7772.html

FloridaMetal

What I meant by serial number was for U.S. military where we enter a number such as 85-0029 for Army/Air Force or a BuNo 164334 for Navy/Marines. the c/n would be for a C-130 would be something starting with a 382 so it would be 382-0123 or something like that.

Some C-130s have moved on to Civilian hands or to other foreign military operators.

I get most of my military serial/buno information from Joe Baugher's site, or Glenn. Joe Baugher's site doesn't always have the c/n.

MalcolmClarke

Daniel.

The two numbers you have quoted are military registrations which are allocated by the the relevant military authority for use when the airframe comes into service.

The cn or sn is allocated by the manufacturer to identify each airframe during the manufacturing period and always remains as the airframes unique identifier even though the registration number may change as the airframe changes owner.

It is true that Joe Baugher doesn't always have the cn and the same applies to many UK military aircraft from the past.

Satisfy yourself that you have looked thoroughly to find a cn, and if you have not been successful, as we have already stated, put Unknown and the registration into the cn field and just maybe someone will supply the missing info at some future date.

Malcolm.

FloridaMetal

I posted a Coast Guard HC-130 at Clearwater Airport yesterday that needed to be added to the database with the basic U.S. Coast Guard 4 digit BuNo. When looking at Baugher's site, it started out as an Air Force HC-130. Fortunately Baugher had a serial for it. I did a search to see if anyone the airforce version of it so that way I could connect the planes through the c/n but that wasn't the case.

I have connected many planes with c/n numbers on here. That is often the case if you go spotting somewhere like Opa Locka where a bunch of older planes are being prepared for new owners in South America. In fact in November there was a GOL 737-300 being prepared for its new owner. The GOL Brazilian registration PR-GLE, which it currently was wearing had changed 2 owners since but was still carrying the GOL registration. It started out with United

At least in terms of commercial airliners, I found this to be a great site for finding historical data where you can connect C/N numbers. Here is the history of that GOL for example

http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/737/24249,PR-GLE-GOL-Transportes-Aeros.php

I hope this site planespotters.net isn't our "competition" and I am making an advertisement for a site I don't even have one picture on, but I was able to link this GOL jet with a United plane that had data on here.

FloridaMetal

Actually in the above reference to GOL 737, I have it listed under current owner which is a leasing company with registration N189AQ. It should be wearing another registration soon P4-TIE, Tiara Air, whoever that is. As of November 16 it was still wearing PR-GLE, but was officially changed to N189AQ on Oct 28, 2011.

ChrisHall

I found this to be a great site for finding historical data where you can connect C/N numbers. Here is the history of that GOL for example

http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/737/24249,PR-GLE-GOL-Transportes-Aeros.php

That is one of the sites that I use to cross reference data when updating our database, plus I have added a few photo's :

FloridaMetal

Well since I found a-d, I kinda stopped posting at my other sites. I have a bunch of stuff up at myaviation, but its been a good year since I been there. There top guy there, who I thought I could never catch (I only have about 14,000 up there) has 1000 less than I do here - so I could potentially catch him, but as I am trying to catch him there all you guys would pass me up here :

I just used planespotters again to add a new Avianca A319 HK-4552 to our database today. It has everything you need actually - engine type, seating, c/n, delivery date, year built etc.

http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Airbus/A319/3518,HK-4552-X-Avianca.php

I wish there was a site like that for military that was more detailed than baugher.

Are there any good non American military databases similar to baughers site?

ChrisHall

Are there any good non American military databases similar to baughers site?

I find this is one of the best

http://www.scramble.nl/milbase.htm

MalcolmClarke

I agree, and the site also has lists of air show attendees across the world although I have found it to be incomplete on occasions.

For example it was a help recently in identifying some attendee's at the 1955 Farnborough Air Show in respect of some old photos I was given..

Malcolm.

FloridaMetal

Are there any good non American military databases similar to baughers site?

I find this is one of the best

http://www.scramble.nl/milbase.htm

Thanks,

I saved it for future reference as I get occassional international military aircraft at airshows or flying into MCO/MIA etc