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  • "UNKNOWN" aircraft

I have been working on fixing my "UNKNOWN" aircraft, where most was on my film days where the reg/serial #s were too small to read on the photo prints, or just the fact that back then I wasn't thinking about getting the number, just trying to get the plane - so that involved me looking on other aviation websites and other research to see if anyone got the same planes at airshows or look for similar markings.

Now I am noticing that a lot of the planes left that I have that are unknown are ultralites I took at places like Sun N Fun. A lot of the aircraft below a certain weight don't have registrations I noticed. Or at least I looked all over some parked ultralites and couldn't find any numbers for them. What is the suggestion for unmarked ultralites in this case in trying to get them out of the "unknown" category?

Hi Daniel,

firstly, thanks for going through your collection and helping to identify some of the "UNKNOWNS"

with regards to the ultralites, I would recommend leaving them where they are as they have been organised into separate profiles.

Chris

So just go ahead and leave Ultralites as unknown?

I got a lot of hot air balloons too that are unknown. What I noticed with balloons is that the registration may only be on one side of the balloon and very small, so if the balloon doesn't turn in my direction I won't get it. I am going to try looking up balloons on here based in Florida as well as other sites to see if I can find a match.

By keeping the ultralites together it makes it easier for other members to look through the photo's and help with an ID. The same can be done with any unidentified Balloons by adding them here.

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photos/UNKNOWN.html

Maybe you should make separate UNKNOWNs

UNKNOWN BALLOON

UNKNOWN ULTRA

UNKNOWN HELI

etc

How do I get all my unknown balloons into this balloon unknown section?

When I do a photo search on my unknowns while under my profile I get all the unknown aircraft pictures - however when I correct their registration I don't get that pull down option of all the aircraft that are wearing the registration like I do when I post a brand new picture.

So I can't figure out how to move these old balloon and ultralite pictures to these separate sections?

How do I get all my unknown balloons into this balloon unknown section?

So I can't figure out how to move these old balloon and ultralite pictures to these separate sections?

Hi Daniel

I have moved five of your unknown balloon photo's over to the balloon profile. If you re-edit the tailnumbers of the images you want moving to read AAAAA, they will show up in the file in the admin section. I will then move them into the UNKNOWN section

regards

Chris

Maybe you should make separate UNKNOWNs

UNKNOWN BALLOON

UNKNOWN ULTRA

UNKNOWN HELI

etc

there are currently 68 different profiles in the UNKNOWN section, including the three you have suggested.

Quad City Challenger

Wright Flyer 1 Replica

Gliders UNKNOWN

Helicopters UNKNOWN

1980 Soyuz 35

Boeing 747

Various Balloons

Fokker Spin

Hiller H-23 Raven

Legendary Aircraft TF-51

1992 Glasair III

Murphy Rebel

Snedden M7

Various Ultralights

Advanced Aviation Carrera Ultralight

M-Squared Breese 2

Lockheed C-130 Hercules

Lockheed P-3 Orion

Quad City Challenger

Quicksilver GT-400

Airborne XT912

FlyLight Dragonfly

Team Minimax 91

Santos-Dumont Demoiselle (replica)

Kruker Explorer L-103

InterPlane ZJ-Viera

Quicksilver SPORT 2S

Sonnex Onnex (Folding Wing)

McDonnell Douglas DC-10/MD-11

Various Airships

Bleriot XI bis Monoplane replica

Boeing Bird of Prey

Rockwell B-1 Lancer

Quad City Challenger I

Northrop F-5E Tiger II

Boeing KC135

Boeing B-52G Stratofortress

Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk

Various Contrails

Miscellaneous UNKNOWN

Wright 1909 Military Flyer

Mignet HM-14 Pou-du-Ciel

Sheppard CS2

McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle

Fokker DR1 Triplane

1952 Horten XVc

British Aerospace Hawk T1A

NH Industries NH-90 (Mock-up)

1945 Republic JB-2 Loon

Wright Model B Flyer

Dassault Mirage F.1C

Eurocopter EC-645

Hummel Aviation Ultra Cruiser

McDonnell Douglas DC-8

McDonnell Douglas MD-80 (DC-9)

Boeing 737

Aerospatiale Alouette III

Boeing 757-223

1952 EFW N-20 Aiguillon

UNKNOWN UNKNOWN

Curtiss-Wright C46

Lockheed Martin F22A Raptor

Beech A-23 Musketeer

Grumman F-14 Tomcat

Cessna T-37B Tweety Bird

Boeing 727

Zenair CH-650B Zodiac

General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon.

Happy New Year Chris, I've moved them.

Malcolm.

Thanks Malcolm and Happy New Year to you too

Happy New Years guys.

I got a bunch of paragliders - since they don't have registrations I could maybe also create a "MISC Paraglider" profile and dump them there too.

I just created a profile "POWERED PARACHUTE" for the paragliders, parahawks etc.

Daniel.

Sorry to strike a slightly sour note, but you can "dump" all the images you wish and create all the profiles you wish but in my view, unless an image can be identified by reg, manufacturer etc, the chances of it being seen by anyone is as likely as me winning the 100 metres at this years Olympic Games.

I urge you to try very hard to seek identification. The Admin team are pretty bright honchos but ........... !

I predict that many of those you are digging out will fall by the wayside. They will add to your photo count but I hope that may not be the reason.

In my view, unidentified images should not be uploaded. They place an unwelcome load upon the Admin team who already have more than enough on their plates.

Happy New Year,

Malcolm.

Powered Parachutes are too small I believe to be required to have a registration, I think its after a certain weight they have to have one just like some of the smallest ultralites. Most of the powered parachutes I have were taken 4 years ago and posted as unknown.

The only one I have left to post is one I took about a year ago where this guy flies around St. Pete Beach buzzing buildings that I just thought were cool pictures. Yeah it probably wont get a lot of views due to its lack of registration but it is a cool flying object and I post it - hell I would post birds if I could (and I will under the airport section - you'll see what I mean later). I am not going to make a habit from now on of posting stuff that is hard to identify like ultralites and powered parachutes (with exception of the one over St. Pete Beach). Most of my unknowns in the past were taken with a film camera in the 1980s/90s when I wasn't concerned with registrations/serials etc just for my own common use - I am doing the research on them going to other aviation sites to see if people had that same plane from that airshow and matching what they have.

Well I hear what you say and I have some sympathy about images from some time ago when perhaps persons would not have foreseen the future regarding aviation websites. But to be honest, I am a little tired about the number of poorly identified images taken at museums where the attendants fall over themselves to talk to visitors, those from airfields where you can often talk to the pilots, etc, etc.

.. and how difficult is it to spare an extra digital image to catch the reg?

But I'm pleased to learn that you are carrying out some research into identifications, so much can be learned by so doing.

On the subject of birds, if they are of the feathered variety, you may find they are not welcome. The object of having an airfield section is to illustrate airfield buildings, activities, layout, etc, but not the wildlife, not even people when they may be the obvious subject. Piloted Robins, Harriers and Albatrosses are welcomed.

Malcolm.

The main reason's for creating the UNKNOWN section were firstly to reduce the large number of unprofiled images and secondly, so other members could help with identifying them. My personal view is that many of the images that are totally unidentifiable should eventually be removed from the site as they add no real value. They would not get accepted on ANY other aviation site that has a screening policy.

Do you know if powered parachutes carry registrations? I am sure various companies build them except they all look alike to me other than their variety of colors.

Or would they carry some sort of other registration in the US other than the typical N number?

I was under the impression that ultralites under a certain weight don't carry registrations as some of the ones that I was taking pictures of at Sun And Fun I looked all over them in various places and could not see a registration for the life of me.

I was next to some of the planes and looked under, above on both sides and couldnt find anything that resembled a registration.

Now trikes are very light ultralites and have caught registrations off of them.

I never knew hot air balloons carried registrations until a couple years ago, but they are nearly impossible to get as I mentioned earlier as they are often very small print and on only one side of the balloon so if it doesn't face you, you don't get it

As for what Malcolm said about museum planes, most of the major museums list their planes on their website with their tail numbers and there is a good chance that someone here has the tail number and profiles already made. I can pretty much credit Glenn Chatfield for most of the US Wright Pat AFM info since he has been there a million times and has pretty much a picture of every plane they ever had on display and I believe he probably posted 98% of the planes profiles on here, I think I posted only 1 or 2 AFM profiles that Glenn actually didn't see that are newly displayed planes this past year. But the AFM also has a list of their aircraft with serials on their website in PDF form.

Now I haven't been able to get a lot of the planes registrations from the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn MI, I still haven't posted those pictures I took back in 2009.

As for what Malcolm said about this:

".. and how difficult is it to spare an extra digital image to catch the reg?"

Unfortunately it sometimes is -

A. The plane is parked at an airport with its own wing/engine blocking the reg, and you are behind a fence and can't get that plane at that angle or from any other possible way to get the reg - such as if the plane is facing you.

B. on some planes the reg is so smal or camoflauge like on some warbirds (to keep authencity) that you have to walk right up to the plane and get a shot of it from 5 ft away - definitely can't see it in flight even if the plane is close by you landing.

C. The same applies for some military regs that I have noticed on some T-1s and Texan IIs that have very tiny serials with print that is less than an inch tall.

D. Some aircraft while flying even in a 45 degree angle from ground are hard to get - American MD-80s come to mind, the regs are right above their rear engines and are hard to sometimes get - you pretty much have to get a side view shot to get them, the same also applies to biz jets flying in on approach at about 500 ft up or more such as C550s, C560s and some Falcons that have their regs on the tail right above their stabalizers

Most of my digital issues with unknown (other than balloons and ultralites) are planes that were taken from a certain angle where I couldn't get the reg. I am looking through my collection of pictures to see if I got that plane again somewhere.

Good morning Daniel.

Regarding ultralights, I recommend your putting ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultralight_aviation#United_States

... into your web browser and you will immediately realise how complex a subject this is and how the differently they are treated by the regulatory authorities around the world.

My understanding is that in your country an ultralight has a maximum weight, not including the pilot and fuel, of 254lbs and is not required to display any form of registration number.

Someone such as Doug Robertson would be able to provide a more definitive description, particularly in respect of your own national requirements..

This does indeed make recognition difficult in certain circumstances but such aircraft most often operate from small airfields and don't tend to travel long distances and the opportunity to obtain information from the operator is frequently possible. Each will undoubtedly have a manufacturer (even as a home build) and a model name/type and these would be sufficient to raise an appropriate profile. So you need to ask, as Chris has said an unidentified image is of very little or no value and as I have implied, it really is down to the photographer to do all he/she can to obtain such information.

Other than my own small library of aviation books, I rely on the internet which we all have access to these days.

I absolutely agree with you regarding the circumstances under which it may be difficult if not impossible to obtain a registration but sadly, you must be prepared to accept that the resultant image may not be of interest to a website.

I think Chris makes a good point. The site should be prepared to carry an unidentified image for a period of time in the hope that someone will come forward with the necessary details, but subsequently, unless there is something very special about it, it should be deleted.

BUT ... please, anyone reading this, don't upload an unidentified image before having done your very best to find the details yourself, but ultimately the Admin team will help and the forum would be a better place to sort out such matters.

Malcolm.