Photography "Harassment" at airports

On 3 different occassions at ATL I took pictures from the windows at the terminal and had no problems. One time at the food court I think in B, and the other two times on the north end of C where there are windows that face the runway. The first two times I had a little harmless looking point and shoot camera, the 3rd time I had my canon with telephoto. None of the 3 times though did anyone approach me or even look at me weird despite the ominous "Please report any suspicious activity to your nearest law enforcement officer" playing over the loud speaker every 5 minutes.

once at john wayn airport as i was walking out taking pictures of airplanes they sayed you cant take pictures of the planes ...... like ok by the Time i got to the office on the way to the taxi i took 12 pictures which are posted now on my user name here one is that Cessna Twin and that Bizzz jet picture lol

Those of you who know me on airliners.net under the name NASCARAirforce are pretty used to the rants about Homeland Security and the current administration in charge.

Now I can understand TSA, police, operations worrying about people taking pictures near perimeter fences and right at airports due to the worry that SIDA areas may be studied thru pictures for access.

What I don't understand is some of the off property harassment I have gotten.

Now in Orlando, I have not had problems off property as I have taken a lot of my pictures using a telephoto from parks and parking lots at least a mile away from MCO, however due to past experiences if I see a cop come by even in the parking lot I usually hide the camera since I just don't want to be questioned by cops.

You also need to look out for the "Git er dun" types that got heavilly brainwashed post 9-11 and are very paranoid and they will be more than happy to squeal on you because they think that they are serving their country by doing so.

Twice up near DTW I had them squeal me out to the police for having a camera - one time the cop was cool and let me keep taking pictures, the other time the cop chased me out, both times I was off airport property.

I have nothing to hide and I am all for their being a badge for aircraft spotters. Basically you would do a similar type background check that you do when you get a job at the airport and you would be issued a photo id with your picture on it and I would be willing to pay for it. With the badge, you could then go to legal public areas ie parking lots, garages etc and take photos all you want. If a cop questions you, you show him the badge and they leave you alone.

Now I can understand TSA, police, operations worrying about people taking pictures near perimeter fences and right at airports due to the worry that SIDA areas may be studied thru pictures for access.

With all due respect that logic doesn't serve well with me. If those idiots were to actually stop and think they would realize that better intel could probably be gained just by using Google Earth. Quite amazing close-up can be had from that and as far as I'm concerned telling shooters to move along is quite silly. To me it's no different than taking a picture of any bridge, building or anything else for that matter if one had the mindset to actually cause some harm. In the end I sum it up to be typical knee jerk reaction from someone with authority and as far as I'm concerned no laws are being broken providing one isn't in unauthorized territory.

Two days ago I was at the airport in an area I just discovered where I can get close to helicopters and was approached by the Military Police. They saw my camera and asked me what I was doing. I was polite while I stuck my camera close to them and said taking pictures. They started to say something and I interrupted them by pointing to a sigh that read " no entry beyond this point " and I changed the subject to " I support what you guys are doing " kinda talk. One of them actually looked embarrassed but they did leave me alone becaause they knew I knew where I stood so to speak.

Up in NY area....

LGA - Planeview Park is right across the airport and great shots can be had from there, I will post some tonight when I get home. (I just found this site today, believe it or not). Never a hassle, every now & then a cop will roll by and ask what's up. We tell them what we are doing and they wish us a nice day.

JFK - All depends where you are, there are so many possible spotting locations, and they are all off-site. Most, again, just check you out and ask what you are doing, only once have I been asked to kindly move on. Although I was in a public parking lot, there was no reason to push my luck and jeopardize future spotting/photography trips.

EWR - I have never been there, because of all the nightmares I have heard from friends who have tried it. It's not worth the drive to me to be harrassed like that. Kinda similar to the ATL stories.

FRG - Hardly ever an issue, probably as there is no commercial traffic.

ISP - I was in a public parking lot about a mile from the airport taking shots. I was there maybe 30 mins. as the traffic here is slow. Two weeks later, I get visited at home by the Suffolk County detectives wondering what I was doing and why. My enthusiasm took over, and he could see I was harmless, and gave me the "Just gotta check it out" speech, but it was an interesting visit none the less.

That's my contribution...not a bad first post, huh?

DIA - I made a casual inquiry about taking amatuer pictures there, and while the young lady was pleasent she was resolute.....there is only one area where you could park and pay, and that is on the 3rd Parking Garage Level at the concourse. The problem is 17 L and R are over 1.5 miles away, and the other three you cannot see because of thesilly Tent they decided to put over the terminal.

KBJC - No Issues as long as you are not taking pictures of the FBO areas, and there is plenty of places to go to, and most only have 4'-0" high fences

KFTG - Totally open, and the folks out there are always coming up to me and giving me email addresses because they would like a picture for their desktops at work (this includes some pretty high level executives for local companies)

Tri-County- There is plenty of off field places to get pictures here, and they do get busy on the weekends. But if you are approached by an officer for the county, be for warned that they will push you along, even if your in the right.

Ft Collins - Plenty of areas off field with good views....never had a hassle there ,but the parking lots to the East are privately owned and they don't go in there very often.

I still think the DHS, and TSA are missing the point in all of this. They want us all to be on the watch for strange activity. I do not hide my picture taking from anybody, so what better person to have on their side.

I see something unusual, I take a picture, and if they want it, great, we get rid of a few more goof balls and fanatics.

Unfortunately it is typical for the US Government to overlook the best free security they can get.....and more frustrating is the fact that the European and Soviet Airports are becomming more open to amatuer photographers.

Unfortunately it is typical for the US Government to overlook the best free security they can get.....and more frustrating is the fact that the European and Soviet Airports are becomming more open to amatuer photographers.

I could not have said it better myself.

on my trip to mexico which i just got home from they told me dont take pictures at one of the fields .... the others didnt mind a La paz inlt kind of dumb if you cant take pictures at some airports

The saga continues!

Today, my wife calls to "congratulate" me on having the FBI come to our house to interview me! About 30 minutes later, I get a call from one of the agents requesting to interview me about my pictures. I won't go into detail, but I guess they figured out that I'm not the bad guy they thought I was!

So, my tally includes: Atlanta Police, Forest Park Police, ATL Operations, Fulton County Police, US Air Marshal, Marietta Police, DoD Police and now the FBI. Who else will "investigate" me?

To my Law Enforcement friends - I'm here to stay! Planespotting is not a crime!

Try Railfanning. Then you will get to know the local Railroad cops....that sounds like the only agency you HAVEN'T dealt with.... :

Here in Houston we are able to shoot from the garage areas. We do call the airport security office and let them know where we are. We also have an official parking lot viewing area at the threshold of one runway.

So far have never been bothered.

Thomas,

I went to IAH, the other day, for the first time. I had my 3 year old son with me and the top off of the Jeep. It was pretty obvious, from watching him, we were having a blast.

Spent hour or so on roof of Term C parking garage. Then drove around to the cargo area and then to Lee Rd (end of RWY 27) We never encountered any problems. In fact, I promised we'd go again if it EVER quits raining..

I never got harrassed at BFI but people in black smoky window SUV's sure arrive quickly after i park and pull out my camera. One instance the sheriff puleed two cars, one blocking my exit and asked several questions about my reason for taking pictures. My friends who photograph trains also seem to have similar issues. I actually don't care that much but I do call the airport and tell them where i am at and my business there ( in a public area no less outside the airport perimeter fence ) I think they should deputise us photographers .

A couple of my stories...I have posted these on another forum....

This is a bit long winded but...

Number 1

I was hassled today for taking a photograph of a military C-26 Metroliner at a city owned airport. (Ft. Worth, Texas) the aircraft was on the ramp in public view. I parked next to some other cars near the fence, got out took 2 photos through the fence. As I was leaving the parking area a man it a truck stopped me and asked me if I worked "there" (the hanger he pointed to said "ATK Alliant Techsystems" on it..I am aware of the business that ATK is in. That is why I wanted the pic of the aircraft.. ) I answered no...he was on the phone an soon a man in Air Force BDU's and another in black T-shirt with a badge at his hip and a man with an city airport shirt and radio came and asked me to erase the photograhps. They asked for my name and address...I showed them my D/L. They told me I was in a "restricted area" and furthermore "Photography is not allowed at the airport" I politely complied and left the area.

BUT:

The aircraft was visible from off airport property, that's how I saw it in the 1st place.

There were no signs placing restrictions on my movement where I was photographing.

The aircraft ultimately departed the field from the public runway between a Piper Arrow and a King Air. ( I was too late to photog this)

There were 4 very determined men facing me...one with a badge, one in Air Force uniform, one with the city, one a do-gooder working for ATK (on the way home from work when he saw me)

I was in no way in a position to start an argument about my rights...I did, politely, let them know how stupid I thought they were...how I could go home and get the long lens and take the shot...how I had been taking pis for years..how I belong to the museum on the field..and we take lots of pics from the museum...duh!

I found this on theCity web site...CITY CODE, Part 2 Division V...

Sec. 3-148. Photography; movie productions; polls.

(a) It shall be unlawful to utilize photographic or moving picture equipment for the purpose of picture-taking or moving picture photography in or near any area designated as a restricted area within the airport unless such person has obtained a permit from the airport director.

The definition of "Restricted Area" is as follows...Restricted area - shall mean any portion of the airport to which no ingress is permitted except upon specific authorization by the director.

So the guy from the City was "correct" is saying "Photography is not allowed at the airport"

I did mention to him there was a fly-in at the field, with hundreds of people with cameras...JUST LAST WEEKEND!

I have since found photographs of virtually the same aircraft on Airliners.net.

I have been taking photographs at this airport for 25 years....never had this kind of hassle.

Just beware of where and what you are photgraphing.

Number 2

_____________________________________________________________

A few weeks ago I was at my local Arlington Municipal Airport (GKY), where I learned to fly and have many friends on field.

The Met Life blimp was there and I stopped in on my lunch hour, like I have been prone to do since about 1984 or so.... and I was followed by a t-hanger tenant.

I stopped my car and got out to introduce myself to this fellow that was tailgating me across the airport at 10 MPH... He had questions like Who are you? What is your business? Real accusatory in nature. When I told him I was taking photos of the blimp he asked me "is that your aircraft?"

Good grief....

He told me I needed permission to be on the field...I produced the airport managers card and told him I had his permission....He didn't like that at all.

I spoke with the airport manager. He understood my plight.

Today...I was at the same airport (GKY) and a fellow with a local flight school waved me down and proceeded to ask the same type of questions in the same belligerent nature as the t-hanger guy. I gave the same response about my hobby and my history at the airport...he told me "we reported your license plate to the TSA" and walked away.

I had immediately had another discussion with the airport manager. He was quite nice and understanding. He rolled his eyes at the TSA comment and offered me his card again and suggested that I ask for permission before taking pictures of the flight school aircraft. (flown predominantly by folks of Arab and Indian persuasion)

We had a nice chat. All is well between the city official and I...

The moral to this story is that there are some overly cautious people out there that seem ready to catch the next Osama or Mathias Rust or whom ever. They see it as their purview to adjudicate who is right and who is wrong. But at public airports I have certain privileges of access and expect to be treated fairly, and I inturn will deal with everyone in a fair, friendly and courteous manner.

The AOPA has put out guidelines on how to deal with GA airport security http://www.aopa.org/airportwatch/

They publish the TSA hot line phone number and encourage folks to call in suspicious activity. They also ask that we get to know each other at the airport become familiar with the folks who inhabit the the airport and become good neighbors.

These folks at the local muni are not being good neighbors.

Be careful out there.

I'll let you know if I get a visit from the feds...

Got questioned for the first time yesterday at Cypress Point Park next to TPA where I take approach shots of planes landing on 36L at TPA as they come over the water.

A guy drove up in a Parks Dept Ford Ranger, but was wearing a rent a cop outfit and came to my car and asked what I was doing. I told him I was taking pictures for a website. He gave me the "I gotta ask in this day and age" speech, but was very polite and professional about it otherwise and even apologized for bothering me - I wish the cops and rent a cops at MCO would at least do this (and I even work there).

There is a Dept of Homeland Insecurity Building nearby, along with several other government buildings I found out yesterday, yet I this is the first time in about 6 visits that anyone even questioned me and I spend a good part of the day there.

Doesn't the APD guy at the airport garage ride around on a bicycle with a flag on it that makes his rounds about once an hour?

Take your pictures then watch for him, leave then come back. I sat there for a good hour and a half and didn't see him until I was leaving.

TPA is where I do most my spotting and I have never had a problem taking pictures there from the parking garage, Hillsborough Ave, and Cypress Point Park. I also did some spotting at PIE one time at the lounge and never had any problems. The Tampa Bay area airports seem pretty photographer friendly, so I rarely spot anywhere else.

I was connecting in ORD on Sunday and the sun was setting so I took some nice terminal shots. My girlfriend and I were eating at the Macaroni Grill in the terminal and I was approached by a CPD officer. For those of you who know what I am talking about,that overlooks a bunch of AA gates. He asked if I was snapping pictures of the aircraft. I said yes and he said it's no problem but someone was complaining I was taking pictures of the "flightline". I have been in the Air Force for 9 years so I know what a flightline is so I think he meant ramp. The cop said he was a spotter himself(lol) and that the guy that complained was another military man. Are people that board? I tried to approach the gentleman but he was no where to be found.

Gotta love the nervous Nellies in our world. Gee Whiz...If you were sneaking around and trying to hide the fact that your were photographing that would be one thing...Gee whiz.

I still think the DHS, and TSA are missing the point in all of this.

They want us all to be on the watch for strange activity.

I do not hide my picture taking from anybody, so what better person to have on their side.

I see something unusual, I take a picture, and if they want it, great, we get rid of a few more goof balls and fanatics.

John is still 100% right!

We are and continue to be the best free security an airport can have.

Get to know the cops in the area... Let them see you.

Advertise your presence!

Know the airport authority... Let them know you will be there as an extra set of eyes.

In a perfect situation, we should be the ones complaining to the airport authority about strange activity.

The local police and airport authority should know what we do and rely on us.

Everybody wins.