Photography "Harassment" at airports

Ztex

This is the subject that never goes away.

I had another run-in with an FBO employee today.

I stopped by a local airfield to see what was around...as I am prone to do... : :

From the road I saw a Dehavilland Turbo Otter on floats parked on the ramp near one of the FBO's on the field.

I pulled in, parked and got out to take a photo of the airplane. There was a young lady that works for the FBO walking around looking at the Beaver at the same time.

I stood on my side of the fence and took a photo. While I was continuing to look, she walks over and proceeds to ask "What's your name...who are you...are you a tenant? " in rapid fire...I waited for her to stop and answered her questions. She told me that the FBO does not allow photography for "customer privacy" I told her that I had had conversations with the FBO and there had been no prior prohibitions placed on my activity and that I have been at this for @ 20 years and...

She said "Well, you just haven't been "caught".

She didn't seem to understand. : :

There was also an FAA King Air parked on the ramp...I asked her if it was ok to take a photo of the Government Airplane? She smiled ... I went on my way...

I guess I'll have to talk to the FBO again...

Gee Whiz...

_____________________________________________________________

On a better note.

I was at DFW airport a few days ago and I parked next to the fence near a guard shack and gate. The guard shack had tinted windows so I couldn't see anyone inside. I went to the fence to take a photo of a Singapore 747 on the freight ramp.

When I turned around to get back in the car, a security guard was standing there. He asked how I was doing and if I was a member of the media. I said no and he said OK!

He told me that he had to ask because the media might pull up and take a photo and then write a story about how they were able to take a picture of an airplane at an airport....and no-one stopped them! He told me that it was no big secret that there were airplanes at the airport... : and to have a good day!

Finally someone with their head screwed on straight! Yahoo!

(and jeers to the media folks being a bunch of nincompoops..as usual)

Bluedharma

He told me that it was no big secret that there were airplanes at the airport...

What??? You are kidding right? There are airplanes at airports?

Whoa... : :?: :?:

mkiogima

He told me that it was no big secret that there were airplanes at the airport...

What??? You are kidding right? There are airplanes at airports?

Whoa... : :?: :?:

Next, you're probably gonna try and tell me people get inside these airplanes and fly to other airports.

BIKEPILOT

And there was I thinking i'd been photographing boats all these years ! : :

Neil

FloridaMetal

There was a young lady that works for the FBO walking around looking at the Beaver at the same time.

Sorry, hehe that sounded funny

Ztex

Well...I must be doing something wrong.

Today I was cruising across the ramp, on the designated vehicle traffic lane, going to see the Collings Foundation B-24. I stopped briefly to snap a picture of a corporate jet on the ramp. The guy in the jset waved to me from the window..>I think he was trying to talk to me but with a 40 MPH wind and his APU running I couldn't hear him....I waved back and smiled, then rolled to where I could take the B-24 photo. Then I turned around and headed for the exit gate and I was stopped by and FBO employee and was told that the guys in the corporate jet were reporting me to the TSA! WOW...

I told the FBO guy, basically who I was and he said "yeah I know"...I told him I was visiting the Collings guys. He said he just wanted to let me know. I went to the FBO and sat down with an acquaintance (the Collings P-51 pilot). As I was talking with this guy an airport employee came in and told me they needed my name, phone and D/L number...I happily complied...they knew who I was and made apologies...I told them I had permission from the airport manager, Bob and they told me that Bob told them to come and get my info...

About half an hour later, after I finished my visit with the pilot, I went to the airport office and talked with the secretary...she commented on the changing times and the TSA being more and more restrictive...etc.

I told here of my arraignment with Bob and my relationship with the airport for the last 25 years...etc. She said, sorry but things change....blah blah blah.

I don't know what will happen next. But I know that I will stay away from the airport. Sad day..

Opinion follows....

Some holier than thou corporate pilot decided that he didn't like me photographing his airplane on a public airport and used the heavy hand of the government to slap me around under some pretense of security. There are many folks from outside the US ( east of Africa, west of Thailand) that are students at the field...and some guy picks on a fat white old guy?

The airport was always very friendly towards me until they had some sort of threat from a over active customer...the FBO guy made some comment that because of Congressional pressure on corporate jet travel, the Jet crowd is a bit jumpy...not wanting to be noticed....or look bad...

I lay today's incident at the feet of government....Over reaching and overbearing in more and more aspects of our lives. They are attempting to kill aviation whether they know it or not.

And they said the at the terrorists would not change our way of life, that they would never win...they are winning

I'm mad as hell....

rant off...

Zane

FloridaMetal

Man you have no luck at airports. Orlando Airport is known for having Gestapo like Police when it comes to photographers, but I always wear my ID badge when I spot at MCO

I am thinking though that this corporate jet belonged to someone who just received a government bailout and the pilot got over ancy because he thought you were a reporter taking pictures of his plane for CNN or something.

Bluedharma

Well...I must be doing something wrong.

Some holier than thou corporate pilot decided that he didn't like me photographing his airplane on a public airport

Zane, that sounds like a real bad time.

I bet Daniel is right. It is all about C.Y.A. at this point.

The corporate pilot may be a jerk, or he is worried he will be on "Good Morning America" for allowing his boss to fly a Gulfstream.

Hard to tell.

The media is just waiting for any type of problem...

Just look at the last GMA show on Red Bull Grumman Albatross.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7192755&page=1

If you had the permission of the FBO, and the Collins Foundation then you really can't be at fault.

Do you think they will restrict your movements at the airport?

(what did Jim say about it?)

Regards,

ConnorShepard

My local international airport is Charlotte. They have a very nice overlook area that can be accessed for free. It is on a small hill that overlooks the threshold and touchdown zone of Runway 18C (formerly 18R). I remember going there on a field trip in 2nd grade. I thought that it was destroyed in the building of the new 9,000 foot runway 36L/18R, which opens in December 2009, but turns out it wasn't. I went there a few weeks ago and a cop did come though the parking lot and questioned a man about his license plate sticker but that is all. On an odd note the overlook once had a problem with gay "cruising" in the parking lot but apparently it is no longer a problem. The news story is here. The Carolinas Aviation Museum owns a small photography area with a radio scanner, overlooking the threshold of runway 18L, but you must pay a museum admission fee to get to it. I was also at my local GA airport, KUZA, spotting. There is no designated overlook so you must pull over to the side of the road. There is a good spot. It is fairly busy. As I was shooting a RHPD officer drove by and went on around the curve. Less than a minute later he came back in the opposite direction. He looked at me, I smiled and waved, he waved back, kept going and that was it. The Chester Airport (KDCM) just to the south is the base of Skydive Carolina. They have a large base area and hangar. There are only a few planes but plenty of opportunities for action shots with no trouble from the cops. I guess I have been lucky so far.

Talonone

Hello everyone,

I am kind of new on this forum, but what I am reading everyday about USA airports just let me :

I am from Europe, but we never have this kind of problems here. At least at LEMD you stay near the runways and can take pics all day long, and with no problem....

Sorry to hear this..

TalonOne

DarrylRoach

My home airport is Austin (AUS). They have a fairly unknown "family spotting area" over by the TxDOT hangars near the smaller of two runways. It's down a pretty unmarked road and in front of an abandoned golf course. But, the spotting area is kept maintained, and I've never been hassled there. I almost always see APD come by inside the airport fence just to look me over for weapons. They've never even stopped. One time they came by the spotting area itself outside the fence in an unmarked patrol car, stopped and watched me for a while, but again have never even got out of the car. Knowing some other AUS spotters, I've learned they are relatively friendly to us. As long as you don't stop on the highway side by the big runway, you're pretty much welcome to take pictures. I've been told the Hilton allows photographers but have not as of yet tried it there.

However, just south in San Antonio (SAT), they aren't so friendly to spotters. I've read lots of stories similar to these about ATL & TPA in this thread of goings on at SAT. They will run pretty much everyone off. The saddest part is they used to have an observation deck above Terminal 2, but they closed it after 9/11. Now that terminal is obliterated and being re-built, so maybe they will bring back the observation deck I hope. I don't know of anywhere off airport property to go at SAT, but if anyone has a good one I'd love to hear it.

On the other hand, one day I went out Military Drive to a permanently closed old gate at Kelly Field (SKF) and tried to do some spotting, but my timing was bad. The C5's had already come in from patterns for the day, so I was only able to snap a few distant shots of the Boeing hangar (see my photo album). It was there I learned that it's not so much the law enforcement that is unfriendly in San Antonio, it's the overly-patriotic citizens. Keeping in mind this old rusted area south of SKF was permanently sealed off, the field had been decommissioned as an AFB years ago, and there were no signs on the fence anywhere around that said I couldn't be there, I must have been honked at three or four times in the process of getting maybe 5 snaps. I expected the cops to show up, but I saw two or three drive by and never even slow down. At least they knew I wasn't doing anything wrong. Maybe I should try Stinson, but SAT area just isn't friendly to our kind.

Amazing what a difference 60 miles can be.

Tigherland

I wish there was some kind of "case" number that I could give the law enforcement personnel so they could just go "OK" and let me go. No matter where I take photo's from, and it's ALWAYS in plain view of everyone, I always get a visit. In order to keep my hobby going, I'm seriously considering purchasing a building near ATL and then I would be on my own property and, hopefully, there wouldn't be anything they could say to me! Yeah, right!

And when you do that, a few days will pass and they willhave place a 1ooowatt light in your direction. They would have called that area a blind spot, that wasn't there in the past.

Tigherland

On 3 different occassions at ATL I took pictures from the windows at the terminal and had no problems. One time at the food court I think in B, and the other two times on the north end of C where there are windows that face the runway. The first two times I had a little harmless looking point and shoot camera, the 3rd time I had my canon with telephoto. None of the 3 times though did anyone approach me or even look at me weird despite the ominous "Please report any suspicious activity to your nearest law enforcement officer" playing over the loud speaker every 5 minutes.

Now thats funny. Its like you are in the woods hearing a speech from the Park Ranger about wild fires and their is a camp fire going in the middle of the summer heat. Bless their little hearts. These guys in the gov't they try hard to have all the right stuff. But they are full of something thats for sure.

Tigherland

Yea I got bit by this spotting business a while back. On some of my first AP that I went to I ended up at Elizibeth City Coast Guard AP. While on the side of the road at the trash dump on the left and AP on the right, I was in heaven. There where many aircrafts to take photos of. Well I was in the zone, I didn't see the rent cop slip up on my drivers door. He asked all the above questions you guys have giving. And I left. I drove around the corner where the Cilvian Side of the AP was at. I walked inside spoke with the guys there. They gave me permision to shoot all I want. Now I thought this was crazy that I can't shoot from the road on Public Property but yet I can go on the AP and do it their. How eight up is all this.

The Feds they still somehow continue to amaze me even now. Like from that movie of Robin Williams stated that we have so much check points at the airport that granny a USA citizne can't board the plane in time and at the same time illiegal aliens are crossing the borders with chairs and couches on their backs.

What a backwards world we live in.

joetraff

Fully agree with you.

Well said... :)

Manxman

Hi everyone

I have found it very different with UK airports. I have quite happily photographed around 'airport property' at airports like Manchester, Birmingham, Exeter, Luton, evecn Heathrow with no bother. On a few occasions security have just waved. At Manchester they're used to spotters.

When I visited Heathrow T5 they were quite happy for us to photograph aircraft that were airbourne, not the case with aircraft on the ground.

My local airport, Isle of Man Ronaldsway, the only time I've been asked what I was doing was at night, so things are a bit different, and they were happy to let me continue.

I supose it's a little different for me though, I am only 14 so police or security aren't going to worry about a teenager!

Mlands87

Recently I moved to the Wilmington NC area. Since then I have occasionally been going to ILM to take some photos. Every time I go I drive around and explore the surrounding areas for the best viewing areas. The airport has alot of rural houses around there so theres alot of good viewing areas that isnt the not so brilliant designated viewing area. Alot of times to get into a good spot it requires me to park the car somewhere kinda distant and walk through some fields or some wooded area.

I have found some great areas with my persistent exploring but a few weeks ago it got me in some trouble haha. I found that if i walk behind some off site buildings and through some marshy woods right next to the AP I can get right at the bottom of RWY 06. When they land in that direction they come in not even 100 feet over my head. It makes for some amazing viewing and even more amazing photos.

I was out there a couple weeks ago and after about an hour of standing there taking pics I can see a Homeland Security truck coming my way pretty fast. I knew right away it was gonna be trouble. So they race across the runway and head right for me. Obviously im on the outside of the fence and they were inside but that didnt matter. I was standing about 10 ft. away from the fence. They pulled up fast and hard with their lights flashing. When they stopped I saw the 2 guys in the front. I was looking at them waiting for them to come out and thats when 2 dudes in the back jumped out and ran up to fence demanding to know what I was doing out there. They told me to come over to them and show them my ID. I told them I was just taking some pics.

They took my ID and did a backround check on me all while they interrogated me for what I was doing. They asked me if I had any WMD'S or RPG'S on me (I was standing there in shorts and a T-shirt.) Asked if I was taking pictures of planes or of the airport. Told me that I look very suspicious standing out there in a field. They said that the tower can see me and thats who reported me. They asked me how I got out there and were surprised when I told them how since it requires going down a ditch and through some thick brush.

But as soon as my backround check came up clean they became extremely nice to me. They said that if I wanted to come take pics anytime thats fine but to just inform one of the Public Saftey Officers at the terminal that I would be out there. He said I could stay where I was with no problems. I told him thank you and we exchanged names and even shook hands through the fence. Its wierd how you can go from suspected terrorist to harmless spectator that fast. Now when I go I head right up to the terminal and tell them who I am and what im doing and right away that same guy shows up, shakes my hand asks me where ill be around and tells me to enjoy myself.

Ztex

That's a great ending to a story!

I wish other airports would be as accommodating. I know the Houston Spotters group http://www.houstonspotters.net/ have listed phone numbers so one can call the authorities to let them know there will be a photographer in a certain area.

I have talked with DFW and other airport folks around my area on the phone about setting up some sort of similar system and they all seem to be bewildered about my request and don't know who I need to talk to to get it accomplished.

I will keep trying...maybe I'll have a similar break through.

Zane

Bluedharma

Great story Mlands87.

Two weeks ago I was stopped by the security of KAPA (centennial airport) in Colorado.

Really it wasn’t a ‘stop’. He wanted to chat and see what was going on.

The guy was very nice. He asked if we had seen anything good fly in.

He gave both me and another airport-data.com member a business card to call if we see any "odd" behavior at the airport.

Best part was… He drove off and came back 10 minutes later with some airport patches we could have.

That was very cool.

I think if you treat the airport authority with respect, they will return the kindness.

Sometimes the airport can point out better opportunities for photos.

After all, most of the people who work Airport security love aircraft too.

red750

Hi Guys,

Sometimes you just get lucky. Today I was at Melbourne (Tullamarine) airport where I took my son to catch a flight. I drove around the highway to the east of the airport and pulled up near emergency gate A. I set up my camera on the tripod and was taking some photos when an Australian Federal Police van came along the perimeter road airside.

The driver stopped the van, held up his hands as if holding a camera, asking 'Taking photos?'. I nodded. He gave me a thumbs up, and drove away - didn't even get out of the van.

That's not the best bit. I then went to Essendon Airport and pulled into an employees carpark between the hangars. I saw an Erickson Air Crane on the tarmac and got out to take a photo through the security fence. See below:

You will notice the wire in the corners of the photo.

A voice behind me said "You want to get some photos?"

I said Yes and he said "I'm the Operations Manager here, come with me. "

He took me into the office, gave me an fluoro orange safety vest and took me airside, where I took these photos:

He told me some of the history of the aircraft, explained the difference between the E and F models (this is an F model) then took me back to the office where he gave me two large posters, half a dozen bumper stickers and 9 (nine) Air Crane lapel pins.

Like I said, sometimes you just get lucky!!! (When I previewed the post the images did not appear. If they don't show in the forum copy the links to your browser.)

Regards,

Peter.

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